zx6000 with graphics and HP-UX

[Database Administrator]

Hi,

Now I got the May 2005 release of HP-UX 11.23 for my zx6000.
As far as I know my configuration should be supported by this
release. However, when the Xserver starts, I first get a message
that HP-UX won't achieve optimal performance on this platform
and that I should install the original version of HP-UX.
Additionally, the mouse doesn't work. You may agree that this
is hardly a situation you would expect from the term "supported".

Then I got back to my 2003 release of HP-UX. Of course it
installs and runs just fine. Then I added the 08/2004 patch
bundle. Then came the 09/2004 patch bundle and voila: The
Xserver comes with the already known "not optimal performance"
warning message. Fortunatly, the mouse still works.
Is it just me or does anyone else sees a problem with this too?
The original HP-UX media is from 10/2003 and the patch that
breaks it is from 09/2004, so the the "works-as-expected"-life
of this product is a little less than a year. I know that the
zx6000 is basically a server in disguise, but that's the kind
of support you would expect when you buy a PC in a super market.
hey, you can get a Windows Vista driver for the FireGL X1 from
AMD which was last updated in Oct 2007.

I finally swremove'd the Xserver cumulative patch from 09/2004.
Does that mean that every new patch might break it again?
What should I watch out for? Xserver? USB? Anything else?

Another thing that makes me think: has HP sold so few of those
Itanium workstations that really noone cares and complains?

Dennis

--
Don't suffer from insanity...
Enjoy every minute of it.

[Database Administrator]

In article , Dennis Grevenstein
writes:
> Hi,
>
> Now I got the May 2005 release of HP-UX 11.23 for my zx6000.
> As far as I know my configuration should be supported by this
> release. However, when the Xserver starts, I first get a message
> that HP-UX won't achieve optimal performance on this platform
> and that I should install the original version of HP-UX.
> Additionally, the mouse doesn't work. You may agree that this
> is hardly a situation you would expect from the term "supported".

I have a C8000 (ATI FireGL X1, HP-UX 11.11 MCOE Dec-2006)
which displays a similar message.
Gfx is much slower than expected, but since the box is
quite snappy otherwise, I delayed respective investigations.
My first thought was it could be a misconfigured X-server.

> I know that the
> zx6000 is basically a server in disguise, but that's the kind
> of support you would expect when you buy a PC in a super market.

That's the kind of support to be expected from a company who once was
leading edge in workstations, but now lives on the mercy
of intel and M$.

> Another thing that makes me think: has HP sold so few of those
> Itanium workstations that really noone cares and complains?

Probably. But with a C8000 one isn't necessarily better off, s.a.

[Database Administrator]

Michael Kraemer wrote:
> That's the kind of support to be expected from a company who once
> was leading edge in workstations, but now lives on the mercy of
> intel and M$.

Virtually the entire "workstation" market went Wintel/Lintel/AMD
independent of vendor.

That said, if one doesn't need/want 3D, there is the "Office Friendly
Server" configuration of the rx2660 or the earlier rx2620 and rx2600
"servers." One of these days I may replace the J5600 on which I'm
typing this with one of those. (Being one of the cobbler's children I
tend to lag the curve

But indeed IIRC somewhere in the 11.23 stream "support" for the zx6000
was dropped in HP-UX. I'm not sure what the state of graphics drivers
for zx6000's graphics might happen to be in Linux.

rick jones
--
Process shall set you free from the need for rational thought.
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

[Database Administrator]

* Dennis Grevenstein:

> Now I got the May 2005 release of HP-UX 11.23 for my zx6000.
> As far as I know my configuration should be supported by this
> release. However, when the Xserver starts, I first get a message
> that HP-UX won't achieve optimal performance on this platform
> and that I should install the original version of HP-UX.
> Additionally, the mouse doesn't work. You may agree that this
> is hardly a situation you would expect from the term "supported".

It isn't supported. The support for Itanium2 workstations (zx2000 and
zx6000) has ended long ago (IIRC end of 2004) as these machines were
basically dead horses when they appeared (just too late to compete with
x86/AMD64 offerings and also lacking ISV support). The server versions
(your zx6000 is basically a rx2600 but with AGP gfx) are still
supported, though, but the support is very limited in terms of gfx.

Benjamin

[Database Administrator]

Michael Kraemer wrote:
>
> I have a C8000 (ATI FireGL X1, HP-UX 11.11 MCOE Dec-2006)
> which displays a similar message.
> Gfx is much slower than expected, but since the box is
> quite snappy otherwise, I delayed respective investigations.
> My first thought was it could be a misconfigured X-server.

I think I actually found a HP-UX configuration that works:
I installed the basic HP-UX from 10/2003, then the 08/2004
patch bundle, then the 09/2004 patch bundle without the
cumulative Xserver patch, then the latest Quality pack for
11.23. With that come some graphics driver and Xserver patches
that seem to make the FireGL work again: PHKL_36140 and PHSS_37972
It's working fine now.

> That's the kind of support to be expected from a company who once was
> leading edge in workstations, but now lives on the mercy
> of intel and M$.

I am still pretty disappointed. Even when you look at HP's
PC offerings in the past (think Vectra...) support was okay.
It almost feels as if the people who screwed up with DEC's
heritage at Compaq have taken over HP...

> Probably. But with a C8000 one isn't necessarily better off, s.a.

right. It's a shame when the latest and fastest PA-RISC
machine doesn't work as expected. Why even sell it when
people can't upgrade their old systems to the latest machine
when they can't run their old software on the new system.

gruss,
Dennis

--
Don't suffer from insanity...
Enjoy every minute of it.

[Database Administrator]

Dennis Grevenstein wrote:

> It's working fine now.

I forgot:

bash-3.2# model
ia64 hp workstation zx6000
bash-3.2# graphinfo

HEWLETT PACKARD WORKSTATION GRAPHICS CONFIGURATION

PRODUCT INFORMATION

graphics product: ATI Fire GL X1
32-bit shared library: /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libddfglrx.so.2
64-bit shared library: /opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libddfglrx.so.2
device pathname: /dev/gvid0
spu description: ia64

CONFIGURATION INFORMATION

image planes: 48
overlay planes: 8
hardware accelerator: yes
geometry accelerator: yes
image accelerator: no
texture accelerator: yes
hardware zbuffer: yes
software zbuffer: no
video out: no

3D CAPABILITIES

lighting and shading: yes
vector antialiasing: yes
model clipping: yes
texture mapping: yes
full scene AA: yes

HP OpenGL SUPPORT

direct rendering (hardware): yes
receive indirect rendering (protocol): yes
emit indirect rendering (protocol): yes
virtual GL rendering (VGL): yes

OS/SOFTWARE VERSIONS

HP-UX ayanami B.11.23 U ia64 3715833141 unlimited-user license

/usr/bin/X11/X:
Built for HP-UX 11.23
X Window System, Version 11 R6
(build date: Tue Jul 29 17:26:08 IST 2008)

/usr/bin/X11/Xf86:
Built for HP-UX 11.23
X Window System, Version 11 R6
(build date: Tue Jul 29 18:36:05 IST 2008)

/opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libGL.so.2:
OpenGL 1.1 Revision 1.41 on HP-UX 11.00 $Date: 01-May-06.13:25:04 $ $Revision: 20060501.6474 $ libGL.so.2

/opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libXfGL.so.2:
X Window System, Version 11 R6
(build date: Mon May 1 13:28:18 MDT 2006)
Built for: 11.23 on HP-UX Daily, +O3 +Oinlinebudget=1000 +Oinitcheck +DSmckinley +FPD +Oshortdata +Ofastaccess -DNDEBUG

/opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libGL.so.2:
OpenGL 1.1 Revision 1.41 on HP-UX 11.00 $Date: 01-May-06.13:25:04 $ $Revision: 20060501.6474 $ libGL.so.2

/opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libXfGL.so.2:
X Window System, Version 11 R6
(build date: Mon May 1 14:30:54 MDT 2006)
Built for: 11.23 on HP-UX Daily, +O3 +Oinlinebudget=1000 +Oinitcheck +DSmckinley +FPD +Oshortdata +Ofastaccess -DNDEBUG

/opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux32/libGLU.so.2:

/opt/graphics/OpenGL/lib/hpux64/libGLU.so.2:

/opt/graphics/OpenGL/lbin/ogld:
OpenGL 1.1 Revision 1.41 on HP-UX 11.00 $Date: 01-May-06.13:25:04 $ $Revision: 20060501.6474 $ ogld

HEWLETT PACKARD WORKSTATION GRAPHICS CONFIGURATION



--
Don't suffer from insanity...
Enjoy every minute of it.

[Database Administrator]

Rick Jones schrieb:
>
> Virtually the entire "workstation" market went Wintel/Lintel/AMD
> independent of vendor.

Not quite true.
In 2006 I obtained a brand new IBM IntelliStation 185.
And one can still buy them from IBM.

[Database Administrator]

Dennis Grevenstein wrote:
> Why even sell it when people can't upgrade their old systems to the
> latest machine when they can't run their old software on the new
> system.

IIRC the c8000 has been off the HP CPL for some time now.

rick jones
--
a wide gulf separates "what if" from "if only"
these opinions are mine, all mine; HP might not want them anyway...
feel free to post, OR email to rick.jones2 in hp.com but NOT BOTH...

[Database Administrator]

Rick Jones wrote:

>> Why even sell it when people can't upgrade their old systems to the
>> latest machine when they can't run their old software on the new
>> system.
>
> IIRC the c8000 has been off the HP CPL for some time now.

So? A C3750 still works fine with 11iv1. Say, somebody bought
a C8000 to upgrade a 3750, because he has a PA-RISC application.
How happy do you think he might be when his more recent C8000
just won't work as expected anymore?

I know this is not your personal fault, so please don't think
I blame you. I just think that when HP forces people to move
to Wintel/Lintel like this, they have one more reason not to
buy their new generic Intel box from HP.

Dennis

--
Don't suffer from insanity...
Enjoy every minute of it.

[Database Administrator]

* Michael Kraemer:

>> Virtually the entire "workstation" market went Wintel/Lintel/AMD
>> independent of vendor.
>
> Not quite true.

It is.

> In 2006 I obtained a brand new IBM IntelliStation 185.
> And one can still buy them from IBM.

Yes, one can. But the point is that actually very few are sold. And from
the ones that are sold the majority of sales is because of the need to
replace an old RS/6000 workstation with something compatible. These
machines don't catch any new customers, and even the existing customers
are more or less slowly moving away from that platform.

Todays workstation market is x64 running Windows or Linux.

Benjamin