2GB limit of memory for Oracle on WIndows 32 bit

[Database Administrator]

On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 1, 11:41 am, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
> > Apart from that cranking up the memory won't resolve your fundamental
> > problem: apparently you never tuned your application and now you want
> > to resolve that by throwing memory at the problem.
> > This method has been demonstrated to be fundamentally wrong over and
> > over again, and is one of the safest methods to end up in hell or at
> > the unemployment office.
>
> > --
> > Sybrand Bakker
> > Senior Oracle DBA-
>
> FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> application, I cannot do any tuning of application.

The above comment is interesting. I recall reading in several places
that the keep pool tries to keep blocks in memory, much like the
default pool, while the recycle pool tries to quickly age blocks out
of the pool. After a bit of a search, I found a bit of disagreement.
The results of the search follow:

"Expert Oracle Database 10g Administration" paraphrase:
The recycle buffer pool will cycle out the objects read out of the
cache as soon as the transaction ends.

"Oracle Database Concepts 10g Release 2 (10.2)":
http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B...htm#sthref1291
The KEEP buffer pool retains the schema object's data blocks in
memory.
The RECYCLE buffer pool eliminates data blocks from memory as soon as
they are no longer needed.
The DEFAULT buffer pool contains data blocks from schema objects that
are not assigned to any buffer pool, as well as schema objects that
are explicitly assigned to the DEFAULT pool.

"Oracle8 Concepts Release 8.0":
http://download-east.oracle.com/docs...227/ch_mem.htm
The KEEP buffer pool retains the schema object's data blocks in
memory.
The RECYCLE buffer pool eliminates data blocks from memory as soon as
they are no longer needed.
The DEFAULT buffer pool contains data blocks from schema objects that
are not assigned to any buffer pool, as well as schema objects that
are explicitly assigned to the DEFAULT pool.

"Expert Oracle One on One" Page 80:
"We also have the ability to carve out a space for segments in the
buffer pool. This space is called the RECYCLE pool. Here, the aging
of the blocks is done differently to the KEEP pool. In the KEEP pool,
the goal is to keep 'warm' and 'hot' blocks cached for as long as
possible. In the recycle pool, the goal is to age out a block as soon
as it is no longer needed."

http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
"NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
and intended use."

http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thre...hreadID=524119 - look for
the posting by Jonathan Lewis for context:
"You will rarely be able to beat Oracle's caching algorithms by
playing with KEEP and RECYCLE pools - but there are a few special
cases..."

Charles Hooper
IT Manager/Oracle DBA
K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.

[Database Administrator]

On Jun 29, 9:07 pm, Frank van Bortel
wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> > and applications. Each 32-bit application can access up to 2 GB of
> > addressable memory space, which is large enough to support even the
> > largest desktop application.
>
> L'histoire se repete... Didn't I hear something similar on the
> 640kB address model?

No. Well you almost certainly did but inaccurately.

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=91182 for example.

I do like the idea of Oracle as a desktop application though

Niall

[Database Administrator]

On Jul 1, 10:47 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
> On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > On Jul 1, 11:41 am, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
> > > Apart from that cranking up the memory won't resolve your fundamental
> > > problem: apparently you never tuned your application and now you want
> > > to resolve that by throwing memory at the problem.
> > > This method has been demonstrated to be fundamentally wrong over and
> > > over again, and is one of the safest methods to end up in hell or at
> > > the unemployment office.
>
> > > --
> > > Sybrand Bakker
> > > Senior Oracle DBA-
>
> > FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> > recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> > application, I cannot do any tuning of application.
>
> The above comment is interesting. I recall reading in several places
> that the keep pool tries to keep blocks in memory, much like the
> default pool, while the recycle pool tries to quickly age blocks out
> of the pool. After a bit of a search, I found a bit of disagreement.
> The results of the search follow:
>
> "Expert Oracle Database 10g Administration" paraphrase:
> The recycle buffer pool will cycle out the objects read out of the
> cache as soon as the transaction ends.
>
> "Oracle Database Concepts 10g Release 2 (10.2)":http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B.../b14220/memory...
> The KEEP buffer pool retains the schema object's data blocks in
> memory.
> The RECYCLE buffer pool eliminates data blocks from memory as soon as
> they are no longer needed.
> The DEFAULT buffer pool contains data blocks from schema objects that
> are not assigned to any buffer pool, as well as schema objects that
> are explicitly assigned to the DEFAULT pool.
>
> "Oracle8 Concepts Release 8.0":http://download-east.oracle.com/docs...r.804/a58227/c...
> The KEEP buffer pool retains the schema object's data blocks in
> memory.
> The RECYCLE buffer pool eliminates data blocks from memory as soon as
> they are no longer needed.
> The DEFAULT buffer pool contains data blocks from schema objects that
> are not assigned to any buffer pool, as well as schema objects that
> are explicitly assigned to the DEFAULT pool.
>
> "Expert Oracle One on One" Page 80:
> "We also have the ability to carve out a space for segments in the
> buffer pool. This space is called the RECYCLE pool. Here, the aging
> of the blocks is done differently to the KEEP pool. In the KEEP pool,
> the goal is to keep 'warm' and 'hot' blocks cached for as long as
> possible. In the recycle pool, the goal is to age out a block as soon
> as it is no longer needed."
>
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> and intended use."
>
> http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thre...readID=524119- look for
> the posting by Jonathan Lewis for context:
> "You will rarely be able to beat Oracle's caching algorithms by
> playing with KEEP and RECYCLE pools - but there are a few special
> cases..."
>
> Charles Hooper
> IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.

>> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
and intended use."


This is exactly what I meant in my first post.

[Database Administrator]

On Jul 2, 5:29 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 1, 10:47 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 1, 11:41 am, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
> > > > Apart from that cranking up the memory won't resolve your fundamental
> > > > problem: apparently you never tuned your application and now you want
> > > > to resolve that by throwing memory at the problem.
> > > > This method has been demonstrated to be fundamentally wrong over and
> > > > over again, and is one of the safest methods to end up in hell or at
> > > > the unemployment office.
>
> > > > --
> > > > Sybrand Bakker
> > > > Senior Oracle DBA-
>
> > > FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> > > recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> > > application, I cannot do any tuning of application.
>
> > The above comment is interesting. I recall reading in several places
> > that the keep pool tries to keep blocks in memory, much like the
> > default pool, while the recycle pool tries to quickly age blocks out
> > of the pool. After a bit of a search, I found a bit of disagreement.
> > The results of the search follow:
>
> > "Expert Oracle Database 10g Administration" paraphrase:
> > The recycle buffer pool will cycle out the objects read out of the
> > cache as soon as the transaction ends.
>
> > "Oracle Database Concepts 10g Release 2 (10.2)":http://download.oracle.com/docs/cd/B.../b14220/memory...
> > The KEEP buffer pool retains the schema object's data blocks in
> > memory.
> > The RECYCLE buffer pool eliminates data blocks from memory as soon as
> > they are no longer needed.
> > The DEFAULT buffer pool contains data blocks from schema objects that
> > are not assigned to any buffer pool, as well as schema objects that
> > are explicitly assigned to the DEFAULT pool.
>
> > "Oracle8 Concepts Release 8.0":http://download-east.oracle.com/docs...r.804/a58227/c...
> > The KEEP buffer pool retains the schema object's data blocks in
> > memory.
> > The RECYCLE buffer pool eliminates data blocks from memory as soon as
> > they are no longer needed.
> > The DEFAULT buffer pool contains data blocks from schema objects that
> > are not assigned to any buffer pool, as well as schema objects that
> > are explicitly assigned to the DEFAULT pool.
>
> > "Expert Oracle One on One" Page 80:
> > "We also have the ability to carve out a space for segments in the
> > buffer pool. This space is called the RECYCLE pool. Here, the aging
> > of the blocks is done differently to the KEEP pool. In the KEEP pool,
> > the goal is to keep 'warm' and 'hot' blocks cached for as long as
> > possible. In the recycle pool, the goal is to age out a block as soon
> > as it is no longer needed."
>
> >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > and intended use."
>
> >http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thre...ID=524119-look for
> > the posting by Jonathan Lewis for context:
> > "You will rarely be able to beat Oracle's caching algorithms by
> > playing with KEEP and RECYCLE pools - but there are a few special
> > cases..."
>
> > Charles Hooper
> > IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> > K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.
> >> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
>
> pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> and intended use."
>
> This is exactly what I meant in my first post.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
"NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
and intended use."

This is exactly what I meant in my first post.-
Just because you put a table in recycle pool instead of keep. Oracle
is not going to treat it any differently.

[Database Administrator]

On Jul 2, 5:33 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 2, 5:29 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > On Jul 1, 10:47 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 1, 11:41 am, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
> > > > > Apart from that cranking up the memory won't resolve your fundamental
> > > > > problem: apparently you never tuned your application and now you want
> > > > > to resolve that by throwing memory at the problem.
> > > > > This method has been demonstrated to be fundamentally wrong over and
> > > > > over again, and is one of the safest methods to end up in hell or at
> > > > > the unemployment office.
>
> > > > > --
> > > > > Sybrand Bakker
> > > > > Senior Oracle DBA-
>
> > > > FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> > > > recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> > > > application, I cannot do any tuning of application.
>
> > > The above comment is interesting. I recall reading in several places
> > > that the keep pool tries to keep blocks in memory, much like the
> > > default pool, while the recycle pool tries to quickly age blocks out
> > > of the pool. After a bit of a search, I found a bit of disagreement.
> > > The results of the search follow:



> > > "Expert Oracle One on One" Page 80:
> > > "We also have the ability to carve out a space for segments in the
> > > buffer pool. This space is called the RECYCLE pool. Here, the aging
> > > of the blocks is done differently to the KEEP pool. In the KEEP pool,
> > > the goal is to keep 'warm' and 'hot' blocks cached for as long as
> > > possible. In the recycle pool, the goal is to age out a block as soon
> > > as it is no longer needed."
>
> > >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > and intended use."
>
> > >http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thre...524119-lookfor
> > > the posting by Jonathan Lewis for context:
> > > "You will rarely be able to beat Oracle's caching algorithms by
> > > playing with KEEP and RECYCLE pools - but there are a few special
> > > cases..."
>
> > > Charles Hooper
> > > IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> > > K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.
> > >> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
>
> > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > and intended use."
>
> > This is exactly what I meant in my first post.>
>
> http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> and intended use."
>
> This is exactly what I meant in my first post.-
> Just because you put a table in recycle pool instead of keep. Oracle
> is not going to treat it any differently.
>

A bit more searching in books finds two different opinions on how the
different buffer caches operate:
"Expert Oracle Database 10g Administration" page 123:
"Keep buffer pool: Keeps the data blocks in memory. You may have
small tables that are frequently accessed, so to prevent them from
being aged out of the database buffer cache, you can assign the tables
to the keep buffer cache when they are created.
Recycle buffer cache: Removes the data from the cache immediately
after use. You need to use this buffer cache carefully, if you decide
to use it at all. The recycle buffer cache will cycle out the object
from the cache as soon as the transaction is over."

"Expert Oracle Database Architecture" page 141:
"In fact, the three pools manage blocks in a mostly identical fashion;
they do not have radically different algorithms for aging or caching
blocks. The goal here was to give the DBA the ability to segregate
segments to hot, warm, and do not care to cache areas."

The first of the above quotes seems to be in agreement with Tom Kyte's
"Expert Oracle One on One" book and the Oracle 8 and Oracle 10g R2
Concepts manual. The second of the above quotes (from another book by
Tom Kyte) seems to be in agreement with the article written by Svend
Jensen on Jonathan Lewis's website.

It makes one wonder... is there a correct answer?

Charles Hooper
IT Manager/Oracle DBA
K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.

[Database Administrator]

On Jul 2, 2:49 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
> On Jul 2, 5:33 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 2, 5:29 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Jul 1, 10:47 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 1, 11:41 am, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
> > > > > > Apart from that cranking up the memory won't resolve your fundamental
> > > > > > problem: apparently you never tuned your application and now you want
> > > > > > to resolve that by throwing memory at the problem.
> > > > > > This method has been demonstrated to be fundamentally wrong over and
> > > > > > over again, and is one of the safest methods to end up in hell or at
> > > > > > the unemployment office.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Sybrand Bakker
> > > > > > Senior Oracle DBA-
>
> > > > > FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> > > > > recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> > > > > application, I cannot do any tuning of application.
>
> > > > The above comment is interesting. I recall reading in several places
> > > > that the keep pool tries to keep blocks in memory, much like the
> > > > default pool, while the recycle pool tries to quickly age blocks out
> > > > of the pool. After a bit of a search, I found a bit of disagreement.
> > > > The results of the search follow:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > "Expert Oracle One on One" Page 80:
> > > > "We also have the ability to carve out a space for segments in the
> > > > buffer pool. This space is called the RECYCLE pool. Here, the aging
> > > > of the blocks is done differently to the KEEP pool. In the KEEP pool,
> > > > the goal is to keep 'warm' and 'hot' blocks cached for as long as
> > > > possible. In the recycle pool, the goal is to age out a block as soon
> > > > as it is no longer needed."
>
> > > >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > > > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > > and intended use."
>
> > > >http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thre...524119-lookfor
> > > > the posting by Jonathan Lewis for context:
> > > > "You will rarely be able to beat Oracle's caching algorithms by
> > > > playing with KEEP and RECYCLE pools - but there are a few special
> > > > cases..."
>
> > > > Charles Hooper
> > > > IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> > > > K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.
> > > >> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
>
> > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > and intended use."
>
> > > This is exactly what I meant in my first post.>
>
> >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > and intended use."
>
> > This is exactly what I meant in my first post.-
> > Just because you put a table in recycle pool instead of keep. Oracle
> > is not going to treat it any differently.
>
> A bit more searching in books finds two different opinions on how the
> different buffer caches operate:
> "Expert Oracle Database 10g Administration" page 123:
> "Keep buffer pool: Keeps the data blocks in memory. You may have
> small tables that are frequently accessed, so to prevent them from
> being aged out of the database buffer cache, you can assign the tables
> to the keep buffer cache when they are created.
> Recycle buffer cache: Removes the data from the cache immediately
> after use. You need to use this buffer cache carefully, if you decide
> to use it at all. The recycle buffer cache will cycle out the object
> from the cache as soon as the transaction is over."
>
> "Expert Oracle Database Architecture" page 141:
> "In fact, the three pools manage blocks in a mostly identical fashion;
> they do not have radically different algorithms for aging or caching
> blocks. The goal here was to give the DBA the ability to segregate
> segments to hot, warm, and do not care to cache areas."
>
> The first of the above quotes seems to be in agreement with Tom Kyte's
> "Expert Oracle One on One" book and the Oracle 8 and Oracle 10g R2
> Concepts manual. The second of the above quotes (from another book by
> Tom Kyte) seems to be in agreement with the article written by Svend
> Jensen on Jonathan Lewis's website.
>
> It makes one wonder... is there a correct answer?
>
> Charles Hooper
> IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It makes one indeed wonder: Was the OP justified in stating I didn't
understand the concept of the keep and the recycle pool at all? I
don't think so. But then the OP is an idiot who mistakenly claims he
knows everything better, and won't retreat, even when it was been
demonstrated sufficiently I was not wrong at all.

--
Sybrand Bakker
Senior Oracle DBA

[Database Administrator]

On Jul 2, 8:49 am, Charles Hooper wrote:
> On Jul 2, 5:33 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 2, 5:29 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > On Jul 1, 10:47 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
>
> > > > On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 1, 11:41 am, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
> > > > > > Apart from that cranking up the memory won't resolve your fundamental
> > > > > > problem: apparently you never tuned your application and now you want
> > > > > > to resolve that by throwing memory at the problem.
> > > > > > This method has been demonstrated to be fundamentally wrong over and
> > > > > > over again, and is one of the safest methods to end up in hell or at
> > > > > > the unemployment office.
>
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Sybrand Bakker
> > > > > > Senior Oracle DBA-
>
> > > > > FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> > > > > recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> > > > > application, I cannot do any tuning of application.
>
> > > > The above comment is interesting. I recall reading in several places
> > > > that the keep pool tries to keep blocks in memory, much like the
> > > > default pool, while the recycle pool tries to quickly age blocks out
> > > > of the pool. After a bit of a search, I found a bit of disagreement.
> > > > The results of the search follow:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > "Expert Oracle One on One" Page 80:
> > > > "We also have the ability to carve out a space for segments in the
> > > > buffer pool. This space is called the RECYCLE pool. Here, the aging
> > > > of the blocks is done differently to the KEEP pool. In the KEEP pool,
> > > > the goal is to keep 'warm' and 'hot' blocks cached for as long as
> > > > possible. In the recycle pool, the goal is to age out a block as soon
> > > > as it is no longer needed."
>
> > > >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > > > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > > and intended use."
>
> > > >http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thre...524119-lookfor
> > > > the posting by Jonathan Lewis for context:
> > > > "You will rarely be able to beat Oracle's caching algorithms by
> > > > playing with KEEP and RECYCLE pools - but there are a few special
> > > > cases..."
>
> > > > Charles Hooper
> > > > IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> > > > K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.
> > > >> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
>
> > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > and intended use."
>
> > > This is exactly what I meant in my first post.>
>
> >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > and intended use."
>
> > This is exactly what I meant in my first post.-
> > Just because you put a table in recycle pool instead of keep. Oracle
> > is not going to treat it any differently.
>
> A bit more searching in books finds two different opinions on how the
> different buffer caches operate:
> "Expert Oracle Database 10g Administration" page 123:
> "Keep buffer pool: Keeps the data blocks in memory. You may have
> small tables that are frequently accessed, so to prevent them from
> being aged out of the database buffer cache, you can assign the tables
> to the keep buffer cache when they are created.
> Recycle buffer cache: Removes the data from the cache immediately
> after use. You need to use this buffer cache carefully, if you decide
> to use it at all. The recycle buffer cache will cycle out the object
> from the cache as soon as the transaction is over."
>
> "Expert Oracle Database Architecture" page 141:
> "In fact, the three pools manage blocks in a mostly identical fashion;
> they do not have radically different algorithms for aging or caching
> blocks. The goal here was to give the DBA the ability to segregate
> segments to hot, warm, and do not care to cache areas."
>
> The first of the above quotes seems to be in agreement with Tom Kyte's
> "Expert Oracle One on One" book and the Oracle 8 and Oracle 10g R2
> Concepts manual. The second of the above quotes (from another book by
> Tom Kyte) seems to be in agreement with the article written by Svend
> Jensen on Jonathan Lewis's website.
>
> It makes one wonder... is there a correct answer?
>
> Charles Hooper
> IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, there is correct answer "the quote which I sent in my previous
mail". Apparenetly you have never used this feature. Once you use the
feature haze will disappear.

[Database Administrator]

On Jul 2, 8:56 am, sybrandb wrote:
> On Jul 2, 2:49 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 2, 5:33 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > On Jul 2, 5:29 am, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > On Jul 1, 10:47 pm, Charles Hooper wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jul 1, 12:37 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jul 1, 11:41 am, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
> > > > > > > Apart from that cranking up the memory won't resolve your fundamental
> > > > > > > problem: apparently you never tuned your application and now you want
> > > > > > > to resolve that by throwing memory at the problem.
> > > > > > > This method has been demonstrated to be fundamentally wrong over and
> > > > > > > over again, and is one of the safest methods to end up in hell or at
> > > > > > > the unemployment office.
>
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Sybrand Bakker
> > > > > > > Senior Oracle DBA-
>
> > > > > > FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> > > > > > recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> > > > > > application, I cannot do any tuning of application.
>
> > > > > The above comment is interesting. I recall reading in several places
> > > > > that the keep pool tries to keep blocks in memory, much like the
> > > > > default pool, while the recycle pool tries to quickly age blocks out
> > > > > of the pool. After a bit of a search, I found a bit of disagreement.
> > > > > The results of the search follow:
>
> >
>
> > > > > "Expert Oracle One on One" Page 80:
> > > > > "We also have the ability to carve out a space for segments in the
> > > > > buffer pool. This space is called the RECYCLE pool. Here, the aging
> > > > > of the blocks is done differently to the KEEP pool. In the KEEP pool,
> > > > > the goal is to keep 'warm' and 'hot' blocks cached for as long as
> > > > > possible. In the recycle pool, the goal is to age out a block as soon
> > > > > as it is no longer needed."
>
> > > > >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > > > > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > > > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > > > and intended use."
>
> > > > >http://forums.oracle.com/forums/thre...524119-lookfor
> > > > > the posting by Jonathan Lewis for context:
> > > > > "You will rarely be able to beat Oracle's caching algorithms by
> > > > > playing with KEEP and RECYCLE pools - but there are a few special
> > > > > cases..."
>
> > > > > Charles Hooper
> > > > > IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> > > > > K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.
> > > > >> "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
>
> > > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > > and intended use."
>
> > > > This is exactly what I meant in my first post.>
>
> > >http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/faq/pin_table.html
> > > "NOTE: there is no difference in the behavior of the three buffer
> > > pools, the naming of the pools is merely for memo technically reasons
> > > and intended use."
>
> > > This is exactly what I meant in my first post.-
> > > Just because you put a table in recycle pool instead of keep. Oracle
> > > is not going to treat it any differently.
>
> > A bit more searching in books finds two different opinions on how the
> > different buffer caches operate:
> > "Expert Oracle Database 10g Administration" page 123:
> > "Keep buffer pool: Keeps the data blocks in memory. You may have
> > small tables that are frequently accessed, so to prevent them from
> > being aged out of the database buffer cache, you can assign the tables
> > to the keep buffer cache when they are created.
> > Recycle buffer cache: Removes the data from the cache immediately
> > after use. You need to use this buffer cache carefully, if you decide
> > to use it at all. The recycle buffer cache will cycle out the object
> > from the cache as soon as the transaction is over."
>
> > "Expert Oracle Database Architecture" page 141:
> > "In fact, the three pools manage blocks in a mostly identical fashion;
> > they do not have radically different algorithms for aging or caching
> > blocks. The goal here was to give the DBA the ability to segregate
> > segments to hot, warm, and do not care to cache areas."
>
> > The first of the above quotes seems to be in agreement with Tom Kyte's
> > "Expert Oracle One on One" book and the Oracle 8 and Oracle 10g R2
> > Concepts manual. The second of the above quotes (from another book by
> > Tom Kyte) seems to be in agreement with the article written by Svend
> > Jensen on Jonathan Lewis's website.
>
> > It makes one wonder... is there a correct answer?
>
> > Charles Hooper
> > IT Manager/Oracle DBA
> > K&M Machine-Fabricating, Inc.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> It makes one indeed wonder: Was the OP justified in stating I didn't
> understand the concept of the keep and the recycle pool at all? I
> don't think so. But then the OP is an idiot who mistakenly claims he
> knows everything better, and won't retreat, even when it was been
> demonstrated sufficiently I was not wrong at all.
>
> --
> Sybrand Bakker
> Senior Oracle DBA- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


You are an idiot not OP.

[Database Administrator]

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Niall Litchfield wrote:
> On Jun 29, 9:07 pm, Frank van Bortel
> wrote:
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>>
>>> and applications. Each 32-bit application can access up to 2 GB of
>>> addressable memory space, which is large enough to support even the
>>> largest desktop application.
>> L'histoire se repete... Didn't I hear something similar on the
>> 640kB address model?
>
> No. Well you almost certainly did but inaccurately.
>
> http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=91182 for example.

Well - I don't believe that, either, because only 256k was
allocated to "special" purposes (the I/O map, to be exact)
Some models, running MS/DOS, ran with 768kB of memory, and
could *use* it (to run Oracle V4, for example).
The TI Professional Computer was such a machine. That fact
does not comply with the quoted article.

MS has been twisting history before (not to use the word rewrite,
which is too strong), and has always bee excellent in marketing.
>
> I do like the idea of Oracle as a desktop application though

And I stated AutoCAD as an example, not Oracle.
>
> Niall
>
I guess this will soon also be one of those 'never said 2GB was enough'
things.

Bottom line is - you'll never have enough memory. There will always be
a product that uses more. Just like CPU power.
- --
Regards,
Frank van Bortel

Top-posting is one way to shut me up...
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[Database Administrator]

On Jul 1, 4:53 pm, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Jul 1, 5:04 pm, sybra...@hccnet.nl wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:37:23 -0700, zigzag...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >FYI, keep and recycle pools work exactly the same way. keep and
> > >recycle are just the names given by Oracle. Vendor sells the
> > >application, I cannot do any tuning of application.
>
> > Actually they don't. But as you don't even understand the virtual
> > memory concept I won't waste my time in explaining this further.
> > Obviously it is not true you cannot due any tuning of application, at
> > least you can identify the problem areas, and address those with
> > vendor.
> > But as you prefer the DKB method of 'tuning' nothing is going to be
> > resolved and you will end up in hell, where you deserve to be.
>
> > --
> > Sybrand Bakker
> > Senior Oracle DBA
>
> You do not have any understanding of keep and recycle pools at all.
> Read Tom Kyte's web site or post a question there. Problem with you
> is you have no idea of reality, if vendor could fix the problem, it
> won't be an issue at all. In many compaines people get stuck with
> whatever vendor provides, yet same time management wants to improve
> performance, so all one can do from DBA's perspective is to figure how
> to add more memory, more CPU's etc. That is reality. Many years ago, I
> used to work in an environment where company's developemnt group will
> develop all the applications and you can ask them to tume the
> application without much problem, but that is not true in all the
> shops.
>
> Also, using WIDNOWS'S AWE one can go beyound 4GB. That was my original
> question which you have
> no undesratnding.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No, it can't. Windows 32-bit can access 4 GB of physical memory and
no more, period. Installing 8 GB of memory on a 32-bit windows
machine is folly as only half of that allotment can be addressed.
The /PAE switch engages a 'smoke and mirrors' approach to SIMULATE
more memory, not provide actual physical addresses.

If you really want to access more than 4 GB of memory you need to
ditch the 32-bit version of Windows and install the 64-bit release.


David Fitzjarrell