Book advice

On Oct 23, 10:51*pm, lyle fairfield wrote:
> "Larry Linson" wrote innews:vR9Mk.3442$r_3.779@nwrddc02.gnilink.net:
>
> > In fact, I thought you had given up on them for (in-)security reasons
> > -- did I misunderstand?
>
> I did until I realized that mdb/accdb -> odbc -> ms-sql server applications
> had the same insecurity. The insecurity exists because MS has not perfected
> the use of application roles in Access. It's more glaring with ADPS, but
> it's the same insecurity.
>
> > And, I do know that the Access team at Microsoft now recommends ACCDB
> > - ODBC - Server as the method of choice, not ADP as was the case for
> > several years.
>
> My own opinion, shared by no one, I expect, is that the MS's abject and
> almost total failure in enabling the easy and efficient use of application
> roles by access applications is the reason for this, and for the
> abandonment of any actice promotion of ADPs. It's one thing to have
> enormous security holes that are a bit concealed, as in mdb/accdb -> odbc
> -> ms-sql server applications and it's another to have them dangle in the
> open in flashing neon as they do in ADPs. Regardless, it's the developer
> who must assume responsibility for this insecurity as MS ignores the issue
> and creates pretty ribbons, like HIV with sexier lipstick.
>
> BTW, did the Access team create/approve/promote Northwoods 2007.accdb? Oh
> yeah, I wanna accept recommendations from them, second only to
> recommendations from the world's complete collection of buckets of rocks.
>
> ---
> This question has bothered me for a long time, Larry. Perhaps you can help
> with it?
>
> If MVPs had been charged with the responsibility of pursuing the Iraq war,
> would they have recommended using elephants because of Hannibal's success?
>
> --
> lyle fairfield

"lyle fairfield" wrote

> BTW, did the Access team create/approve/
> promote Northwoods 2007.accdb?

I don't know who wrote, or approved, any version of that example. I would
be even less likely to know about a 2007 version than earlier ones, but
don't know about either.

On occasion, I have recommended examining some particular small piece of
Northwind Traders to illustrate some technique.

Fortunately, rating application programs in general is not one of my
hobbies. :-)

> If MVPs had been charged with the
> responsibility of pursuing the Iraq war,
> would they have recommended using
> elephants because of Hannibal's success?

I wouldn't recommend using Microsoft MVPs to conduct a war anymore than I
would recommend using professional soldiers to create computer applications.

I would not care to speculate what any individual MVP might do in such a
circumstance, much, much less what they might do "on the average".

Larry

On Oct 23, 9:51 pm, lyle fairfield wrote:
> "Larry Linson" wrote innews:vR9Mk.3442$r_3.779@nwrddc02.gnilink.net:
>
> > In fact, I thought you had given up on them for (in-)security reasons
> > -- did I misunderstand?
>
> I did until I realized that mdb/accdb -> odbc -> ms-sql server applications
> had the same insecurity. The insecurity exists because MS has not perfected
> the use of application roles in Access. It's more glaring with ADPS, but
> it's the same insecurity.
>
> > And, I do know that the Access team at Microsoft now recommends ACCDB
> > - ODBC - Server as the method of choice, not ADP as was the case for
> > several years.
>
> My own opinion, shared by no one, I expect, is that the MS's abject and
> almost total failure in enabling the easy and efficient use of application
> roles by access applications is the reason for this, and for the
> abandonment of any actice promotion of ADPs. It's one thing to have
> enormous security holes that are a bit concealed, as in mdb/accdb -> odbc
> -> ms-sql server applications and it's another to have them dangle in the
> open in flashing neon as they do in ADPs. Regardless, it's the developer
> who must assume responsibility for this insecurity as MS ignores the issue
> and creates pretty ribbons, like HIV with sexier lipstick.
>
> BTW, did the Access team create/approve/promote Northwoods 2007.accdb? Oh
> yeah, I wanna accept recommendations from them, second only to
> recommendations from the world's complete collection of buckets of rocks.
>
> ---
> This question has bothered me for a long time, Larry. Perhaps you can help
> with it?
>
> If MVPs had been charged with the responsibility of pursuing the Iraq war,
> would they have recommended using elephants because of Hannibal's success?
>
> --
> lyle fairfield

While it's true that some MVP's supply canned responses without
engaging their brain sometimes and that it's true that the advice
given by some MVP's is often dated, realize that such inertia is not
necessarily a bad thing. The social inertia of any institution
eventually adapts to what is appropriate for that institution. BTW,
I'm not suggesting that MVP's belong in an institution :-). There are
signs that programming inertia is decreasing, resulting in more rapid
changes in how we program. Even some Microsoft specialists seem to be
struggling to keep up with the current rate of change. With their
affiliation with Microsoft I suspect that MVP's will soon experience
some of the culture shock that is happening there.

Right now I'm putting a lot of effort into becoming what I consider
proficient at C# and into watching the PDC 08 propaganda :-). I'm
also writing my Access programs so that they will convert to any
version of Access. I.e., I'm finding out what gets broken in A2K7 and
programming accordingly in a heterogeneous version environment.
That's just the Microsoft side.

IMO, Microsoft has made many mistakes as a result of moving too
quickly in some areas. Vista was ready (?) before the hardware
required to run it efficiently was in place at many companies. They
made many other mistakes by not thinking things through it would
seem. So I think social inertia has a reason for being what it is and
that programmers will get overwhelmed by some of the changes that are
coming. I suspect that if an MVP and Microsoft are at cross-purposes
such as competing for the same customer they'll find that Microsoft
won't be as nice to them as they would like. Microsoft is making a
very serious attempt to increase their competitiveness. IMO, it will
not be wise to remain ignorant of what Microsoft is developing. When
a customer sees what Microsoft is offering, we need to be able to
deliver a Microsoft solution if that is what they want.

We see many signs here that many Access programmers, including some
MVP's, are doing just that, yet they are also trying to retain enough
inertia so that they don't get whipsawed (a stock market term) by
adopting a technology too quickly that Microsoft later abandons. I
watched nearly all of the PDC 05 presentations and I think that will
help me place the PDC 08 presentations in context. I'm kind of
curious about what happened to WinFS.

I see myself getting busier and busier. There are still some loose
ends in some of my posts that I would like to tie up, but I'm going to
have to be selective about my efforts. For me the silver lining is
that the software industry requires a lot of knowledge and continual
learning effort. Anyone who succeeds at keeping up has a remarkable
advantage over, say, someone just starting out in the industry or even
someone with experience who does not have the opportunity or stamina
or vision to keep up. Yet we can't keep up with everything. Working
together and taking advantage of each other's strengths seems to be
the only way to obtain the software proficiency and quality we will
need given the difficulty of the task we will be facing. I appreciate
what I've learned from you, Lyle.

James A. Fortune
CDMAPoster@FortuneJames.com

I've accomplished most of my goals in reading and posting to the
Access NG's. I've made people aware of my programming philosophy, my
strengths, my weaknesses, my coding style and my life in general --
all while helping people and learning as much as I can about Access.
While not perfect, Access has given me a framework (no pun intended)
for putting new software technologies into perspective. It's an
exciting time to be a programmer.

On Nov 6, 9:02*pm, "Larry Linson" wrote:
> "lyle fairfield" wrote
>
> * > BTW, did the Access team create/approve/
> * > promote Northwoods 2007.accdb?
>
> I don't know who wrote, or approved, any version of that example. *I would
> be even less likely to know about a 2007 version than earlier ones, but
> don't know about either.
>
> On occasion, I have recommended examining some particular small piece of
> Northwind Traders to illustrate some technique.
>
> Fortunately, rating application programs in general is not one of my
> hobbies. :-)
>
> * > If MVPs had been charged with the
> * > responsibility of pursuing the Iraq war,
> * > would they have recommended using
> * > elephants because of Hannibal's success?
>
> I wouldn't recommend using Microsoft MVPs to conduct a war anymore than I
> would recommend using professional soldiers to create computer applications.
>
> I would not care to speculate what any individual MVP might do in such a
> circumstance, much, much less what they might do "on the average".
>
> *Larry

On Nov 6, 9:02*pm, "Larry Linson" wrote:

> I wouldn't recommend using Microsoft MVPs to conduct a war anymore than I
> would recommend using professional soldiers to create computer applications.

Dang, if there's no danger of MVP attack, how can I continue to
justify full income tax deduction of my "Attack Whippets" expenses?
This may mean less sirloin for them, a reduction in agricultural
purchasing and a Great Depression. And the MVPs will be repsonsible!