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Why is there a line limit in excel today?

  1. Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    With 64 bit chips, gb of memory, etc... why is there a line limit in
    excel (of 65,000 or something like that)???
    Thank you for any information you can provide!


  2. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    65536 = 2^16. It is an historical addressing limit that has never been
    updated. Perhaps in a future version ...

    Jerry

    mark575757@mailcity.com wrote:

    > With 64 bit chips, gb of memory, etc... why is there a line limit in
    > excel (of 65,000 or something like that)???
    > Thank you for any information you can provide!



  3. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    "never been updated" is probably misleading; the limit was 16384 = 2^14
    through 1995, and that obviously was updated, but 2^16 has been around
    for many versions with no update.

    Jerry

    Jerry W. Lewis wrote:

    > 65536 = 2^16. It is an historical addressing limit that has never been
    > updated. Perhaps in a future version ...
    >
    > Jerry
    >
    > mark575757@mailcity.com wrote:
    >
    >> With 64 bit chips, gb of memory, etc... why is there a line limit in
    >> excel (of 65,000 or something like that)???
    >> Thank you for any information you can provide!



  4. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    If you will need that many rows, it will appear that you are using the Excel
    spreadsheet to store some hard data instead of using it to do some kinds of
    number crunching. In that case, you had better learn Access, which can
    store data with an upper limit of 2GB on the file size.

    Herbert

    "Jerry W. Lewis" bl
    news:41E9C0D5.90307@no_e-mail.com g...
    > "never been updated" is probably misleading; the limit was 16384 = 2^14
    > through 1995, and that obviously was updated, but 2^16 has been around
    > for many versions with no update.
    >
    > Jerry
    >
    > Jerry W. Lewis wrote:
    >
    > > 65536 = 2^16. It is an historical addressing limit that has never been
    > > updated. Perhaps in a future version ...
    > >
    > > Jerry
    > >
    > > mark575757@mailcity.com wrote:
    > >
    > >> With 64 bit chips, gb of memory, etc... why is there a line limit in
    > >> excel (of 65,000 or something like that)???
    > >> Thank you for any information you can provide!

    >




  5. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?


    Herbert Chan wrote:
    > If you will need that many rows, it will appear that you are using

    the Excel
    > spreadsheet to store some hard data instead of using it to do some

    kinds of
    > number crunching. In that case, you had better learn Access, which

    can
    > store data with an upper limit of 2GB on the file size.
    >
    > Herbert
    >


    Not necessarily. There are some things that spreadsheets are good for
    and some things that databases are good for. It isn't just a matter of
    the amount of data, it is a question of what you want to do with it,
    and familiarity with a particular product.
    It's time the row limit was increased again.


  6. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    dougaj4@hotmail.com wrote...
    >Herbert Chan wrote:
    >>If you will need that many rows, it will appear that you are using
    >>the Excel spreadsheet to store some hard data instead of using it
    >>to do some kinds of number crunching. In that case, you had better
    >>learn Access, . . .

    >
    >Not necessarily. There are some things that spreadsheets are good for
    >and some things that databases are good for. It isn't just a matter

    of
    >the amount of data, it is a question of what you want to do with it,
    >and familiarity with a particular product.
    >It's time the row limit was increased again.


    The only thing I can think of that would require a huge number of cells
    all containing formulas would be simulation analysis of some kind.
    Excel is also ill-suited to that usage. If all these cells contain
    constant data, they're a database table, and Excel is far from ideal
    again.

    Personally, I don't think the number of rows should increase. If
    anything, it should revert to 16,384 or even go back to the old 123
    standard of 8,192. Huge numbers of rows make for lots of hiding places
    for spreadsheet bugs, and Excel is no different from other spreadsheets
    in providing weak data integrity checking tools. Beyond that, I have
    yet to see a well-designed spreadsheet that needed more than 1,000
    rows.

    If Microsoft wants to expand worksheet size, it'd be MUCH MORE USEFUL
    if they'd expand the number of columns rather than screw around with
    the number of rows.


  7. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    In the last exciting episode, dougaj4@hotmail.com wrote:
    > Herbert Chan wrote:
    >> If you will need that many rows, it will appear that you are using

    > the Excel
    >> spreadsheet to store some hard data instead of using it to do some

    > kinds of
    >> number crunching. In that case, you had better learn Access, which

    > can
    >> store data with an upper limit of 2GB on the file size.
    >>
    >> Herbert

    >
    > Not necessarily. There are some things that spreadsheets are good
    > for and some things that databases are good for. It isn't just a
    > matter of the amount of data, it is a question of what you want to
    > do with it, and familiarity with a particular product. It's time
    > the row limit was increased again.


    Yes, there are "things spreadsheets are good for"; they tend to
    involve interlinked calculations.

    "There are things databases are good for," and that conspicuously
    includes the notion of handling large sets of data.

    If you're "blowing up" the limits of a spreadsheet, then it seems
    likely to me that you have an application that actually needs a
    database.
    --
    "cbbrowne","@","gmail.com"
    http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/spreadsheets.html
    It is interesting to note that before the advent of Microsoft Windows,
    `GPF' was better known for its usage in plumbing: "Gallons Per Flush"
    -- dedmonds@aw.sgi.com (Dean Edmonds)

  8. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    Christopher Browne wrote:

    >
    > Yes, there are "things spreadsheets are good for"; they tend to
    > involve interlinked calculations.
    >
    > "There are things databases are good for," and that conspicuously
    > includes the notion of handling large sets of data.
    >
    > If you're "blowing up" the limits of a spreadsheet, then it seems
    > likely to me that you have an application that actually needs a
    > database.


    I do a lot of lottery number-crunching using spreadsheets. I use Excel
    when I can because most people I discuss lotteries with have access to
    it. However I find I can only do very simple analysis using Excel
    because of the column and row restrictions. Most of my serious stuff is
    done in Quattro Pro which has much larger limits although it's rather buggy.

    I too found it hard to get information on Boolean functions from Excel
    help when I was starting from scratch. Microsoft seem to target their
    help at expert users who need a little memory jog rather than people who
    are seeking ways to do things more efficiently or expand their knowledge.

    I'd also like to see spreadsheets implement greater precision than the
    IEEE 64-bit double. But with Microsoft controlling the underlying
    operating system, I can't see that happening for a VERY long time.

    NigelH


  9. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    Quoth Nigel :
    > Christopher Browne wrote:
    >
    >> Yes, there are "things spreadsheets are good for"; they tend to
    >> involve interlinked calculations.
    >> "There are things databases are good for," and that conspicuously
    >> includes the notion of handling large sets of data.
    >> If you're "blowing up" the limits of a spreadsheet, then it seems
    >> likely to me that you have an application that actually needs a
    >> database.

    >
    > I do a lot of lottery number-crunching using spreadsheets. I use Excel
    > when I can because most people I discuss lotteries with have access to
    > it. However I find I can only do very simple analysis using Excel
    > because of the column and row restrictions. Most of my serious stuff
    > is done in Quattro Pro which has much larger limits although it's
    > rather buggy.


    I suspect you'd be _way_ better off doing that sort of number
    crunching using a proper statistical package such as R.


    It's readily available for pretty much any platform. (Perhaps not MVS
    or VMS, but who has one of those on their desktop? ;-))

    That would resolve all of the issues you describe, as it includes:
    - Support for more precise floats
    - Support for way larger data structures
    - Includes vastly more and better statistical libraries
    - Includes various "industrial grade" matrix algebra libraries
    including many of the better FORTRAN ones

    There's a time to move to tools that are more suited for particular
    purposes.
    --
    select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'gmail.com';
    http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/spreadsheets.html
    Build a man a fire and he will be warm for a day.
    Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

  10. Re: Why is there a line limit in excel today?

    Christopher Browne wrote:

    > Quoth Nigel :
    >
    >>Christopher Browne wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Yes, there are "things spreadsheets are good for"; they tend to
    >>>involve interlinked calculations.
    >>>"There are things databases are good for," and that conspicuously
    >>>includes the notion of handling large sets of data.
    >>>If you're "blowing up" the limits of a spreadsheet, then it seems
    >>>likely to me that you have an application that actually needs a
    >>>database.

    >>
    >>I do a lot of lottery number-crunching using spreadsheets. I use Excel
    >>when I can because most people I discuss lotteries with have access to
    >>it. However I find I can only do very simple analysis using Excel
    >>because of the column and row restrictions. Most of my serious stuff
    >>is done in Quattro Pro which has much larger limits although it's
    >>rather buggy.

    >
    >
    > I suspect you'd be _way_ better off doing that sort of number
    > crunching using a proper statistical package such as R.
    >
    >
    > It's readily available for pretty much any platform. (Perhaps not MVS
    > or VMS, but who has one of those on their desktop? ;-))
    >
    > That would resolve all of the issues you describe, as it includes:
    > - Support for more precise floats
    > - Support for way larger data structures
    > - Includes vastly more and better statistical libraries
    > - Includes various "industrial grade" matrix algebra libraries
    > including many of the better FORTRAN ones
    >
    > There's a time to move to tools that are more suited for particular
    > purposes.


    Thanks for the suggestion - I'll give it serious consideration.

    NigelH




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